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	<title>Comments for Philip Palmer&#039;s Debatable Spaces</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.philippalmer.net/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.philippalmer.net</link>
	<description>Philip Palmer on writing for print, radio and screen</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:13:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Who&#8217;d Want to be More than Human? by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2010/03/29/whod-want-to-be-more-than-human/comment-page-1/#comment-23481</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=2157#comment-23481</guid>
		<description>Love those images!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love those images!!!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Who&#8217;d Want to be More than Human? by Drew Carey</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2010/03/29/whod-want-to-be-more-than-human/comment-page-1/#comment-23319</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 03:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=2157#comment-23319</guid>
		<description>Mine is not necessarily an actual super power. But if i had a wish it would be to have the power of an old school cartoon character because you can change your shape, hind behind very skinny poles, somehow avoid any number of bullets shot at you, use an air pump to be very strong and pull ridiculous amounts of large objects or people out of your pockets or hat. Among other abilities which would end up making this comment way to long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mine is not necessarily an actual super power. But if i had a wish it would be to have the power of an old school cartoon character because you can change your shape, hind behind very skinny poles, somehow avoid any number of bullets shot at you, use an air pump to be very strong and pull ridiculous amounts of large objects or people out of your pockets or hat. Among other abilities which would end up making this comment way to long.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Red Claw by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/07/12/red-claw/comment-page-1/#comment-21319</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3220#comment-21319</guid>
		<description>Thanks for those lovely comments Doug....I have to say I thought Avatar was a triumph of design over content, and was totally hollow-hearted.  And I&#039;d love to see Red Claw on screen....well, one can dream!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for those lovely comments Doug&#8230;.I have to say I thought Avatar was a triumph of design over content, and was totally hollow-hearted.  And I&#8217;d love to see Red Claw on screen&#8230;.well, one can dream!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Red Claw by Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/07/12/red-claw/comment-page-1/#comment-21271</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3220#comment-21271</guid>
		<description>Red Claw was just as good as I was expecting. This would make a far better film than the weedy &#039;Avatar&#039;. 

Your screenwriting skills are very much in evidence - as is the imaginative free-reign you&#039;ve allowed yourself. 

I read the new Houllebecq book and &#039;Riddley Walker&#039; this week, along with Red Claw, and the uniqueness of worldview and approach to writing in your novel was just interesting as in those.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Red Claw was just as good as I was expecting. This would make a far better film than the weedy &#8216;Avatar&#8217;. </p>
<p>Your screenwriting skills are very much in evidence &#8211; as is the imaginative free-reign you&#8217;ve allowed yourself. </p>
<p>I read the new Houllebecq book and &#8216;Riddley Walker&#8217; this week, along with Red Claw, and the uniqueness of worldview and approach to writing in your novel was just interesting as in those.</p>
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		<title>Comment on On the Art of Covers by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2009/11/22/on-the-art-of-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-20039</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=528#comment-20039</guid>
		<description>I agree about the power of artwork...the artwork on the books since Red Claw is certainly bold and there was QUITE some debate about Red Claw itself.  On the lines of; it doesn&#039;t represent anything in the actual story.  I love &#039;em because they&#039;re so colourful and pulpy without being retro.  But these things are always highly subjective.

Anyway, I&#039;m darn glad you got hooked despite not liking the covers...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree about the power of artwork&#8230;the artwork on the books since Red Claw is certainly bold and there was QUITE some debate about Red Claw itself.  On the lines of; it doesn&#8217;t represent anything in the actual story.  I love &#8216;em because they&#8217;re so colourful and pulpy without being retro.  But these things are always highly subjective.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m darn glad you got hooked despite not liking the covers&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on On the Art of Covers by Joel McConnell</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2009/11/22/on-the-art-of-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-20035</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel McConnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 15:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=528#comment-20035</guid>
		<description>I find that artwork on the cover of a sci-fi book is a big draw for me especially when I am looking for new books not by a favorite author. I have to say I am not a fan of the art work on any of your books after the first DS cover. Thankfully I bought that one and got hooked or I may never have read any of your books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find that artwork on the cover of a sci-fi book is a big draw for me especially when I am looking for new books not by a favorite author. I have to say I am not a fan of the art work on any of your books after the first DS cover. Thankfully I bought that one and got hooked or I may never have read any of your books.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Orbit Blog by Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/12/02/orbit-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-19404</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 07:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=4147#comment-19404</guid>
		<description>Browsing through the local Barnes and Noble the other day, low and behold another Palmer book has arrived! Cheesy gratuitous violence, most imaginative bending of technology, interspersed with little tidbits of spiteful morality ...... ah yes, a most enjoyable read thus far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Browsing through the local Barnes and Noble the other day, low and behold another Palmer book has arrived! Cheesy gratuitous violence, most imaginative bending of technology, interspersed with little tidbits of spiteful morality &#8230;&#8230; ah yes, a most enjoyable read thus far.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Write? by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/11/21/why-write/comment-page-1/#comment-18902</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 11:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=4125#comment-18902</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s great!  Boskone looks fascinating...

http://www.nesfa.org/boskone/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s great!  Boskone looks fascinating&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nesfa.org/boskone/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nesfa.org/boskone/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Write? by Chet Galactic Twarog</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/11/21/why-write/comment-page-1/#comment-18869</link>
		<dc:creator>Chet Galactic Twarog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 03:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=4125#comment-18869</guid>
		<description>Well, John will be at BOSKONE in Feb. So, I&#039;ll just briefly mention this. By the way, I now have &quot;Artemis&quot; bought at Barnes and Nobles, Burlington, MA, along with &quot;Hellship&quot;. Will get to read them in Leap Year 2012!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, John will be at BOSKONE in Feb. So, I&#8217;ll just briefly mention this. By the way, I now have &#8220;Artemis&#8221; bought at Barnes and Nobles, Burlington, MA, along with &#8220;Hellship&#8221;. Will get to read them in Leap Year 2012!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Countdown to Artemis by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/11/21/countdown-to-artemis/comment-page-1/#comment-17089</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 12:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=4135#comment-17089</guid>
		<description>It  is indeed...!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It  is indeed&#8230;!!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Countdown to Artemis by Sam M-B</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/11/21/countdown-to-artemis/comment-page-1/#comment-16963</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam M-B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=4135#comment-16963</guid>
		<description>I saw the book in my local Barnes &amp; Noble in the US yesterday and thought: it&#039;s December already?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw the book in my local Barnes &amp; Noble in the US yesterday and thought: it&#8217;s December already?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Lifeforce by FANTASY &#124; Movie Genre Perspectives</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/11/12/lifeforce/comment-page-1/#comment-15553</link>
		<dc:creator>FANTASY &#124; Movie Genre Perspectives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=4082#comment-15553</guid>
		<description>[...] Punch (2011) Fantasy films frequently feature magical, mythic and some strong elements of escapism to transport a...ements of Science Fiction, Horror or both. For example, any type of advanced technology or alien [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Punch (2011) Fantasy films frequently feature magical, mythic and some strong elements of escapism to transport a&#8230;ements of Science Fiction, Horror or both. For example, any type of advanced technology or alien [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on SFF Song of the Week: Kim Lakin-Smith by Gunpowder, reason and plot &#124; Kim Lakin-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/09/sff-song-of-the-week-kim-lakin-smith/comment-page-1/#comment-15552</link>
		<dc:creator>Gunpowder, reason and plot &#124; Kim Lakin-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3213#comment-15552</guid>
		<description>[...] of blog posts – an SF Song of the Week for writer and future beer-sharing buddy, Philip Palmer at http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/09/sff-song-of-the-week-kim-lakin-smith and my favourite five gunslingers for the inimitable Pornokitsch at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of blog posts – an SF Song of the Week for writer and future beer-sharing buddy, Philip Palmer at <a href="http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/09/sff-song-of-the-week-kim-lakin-smith" rel="nofollow">http://www.philippalmer.net/20.....akin-smith</a> and my favourite five gunslingers for the inimitable Pornokitsch at [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on London Screenwriter&#8217;s Festival 2011 by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/23/london-screenwriters-festival-2011/comment-page-1/#comment-14734</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=4000#comment-14734</guid>
		<description>Look forward to it, Mr Stack!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look forward to it, Mr Stack!</p>
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		<title>Comment on London Screenwriter&#8217;s Festival 2011 by Danny Stack</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/23/london-screenwriters-festival-2011/comment-page-1/#comment-14706</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Stack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=4000#comment-14706</guid>
		<description>Excellent, Phil, see you there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent, Phil, see you there!</p>
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		<title>Comment on On the Art of Covers by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2009/11/22/on-the-art-of-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-14282</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=528#comment-14282</guid>
		<description>Damn I&#039;m so sorry about that Jim!  I&#039;ll try and track the right cover. In the meantime, for anyone reading this, here&#039;s a link to Jim&#039;s ACTUAL artworks:

http://www.alisoneldred.com/thumbsJimBurns-Prints-0-1.html

I&#039;ve been meaning to do that blog of your covers based on the wonderful book you gave me at Eastercon - it&#039;s in the works and will DEFINITELY check with you to make sure I&#039;ve got the right images up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn I&#8217;m so sorry about that Jim!  I&#8217;ll try and track the right cover. In the meantime, for anyone reading this, here&#8217;s a link to Jim&#8217;s ACTUAL artworks:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.alisoneldred.com/thumbsJimBurns-Prints-0-1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.alisoneldred.com/th.....s-0-1.html</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been meaning to do that blog of your covers based on the wonderful book you gave me at Eastercon &#8211; it&#8217;s in the works and will DEFINITELY check with you to make sure I&#8217;ve got the right images up.</p>
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		<title>Comment on On the Art of Covers by Jim Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2009/11/22/on-the-art-of-covers/comment-page-1/#comment-14261</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2011 21:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=528#comment-14261</guid>
		<description>Hi Philip... 
All fascinating and informative stuff as usual..but I thought, in the interests of accuracy that whilst, yes - I have done the cover art for an earlier edition of Peter F. Hamilton&#039;s &#039;A Quantum Murder&#039;..the one above is not it. Mine was the UK edition (way back)..and the above illo was US Tor edition some years ago. Don&#039;t know who the artist is..and although I might be tempted to suggest John Picacio..I think it&#039;s a bit too early for that young whippersnapper!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Philip&#8230;<br />
All fascinating and informative stuff as usual..but I thought, in the interests of accuracy that whilst, yes &#8211; I have done the cover art for an earlier edition of Peter F. Hamilton&#8217;s &#8216;A Quantum Murder&#8217;..the one above is not it. Mine was the UK edition (way back)..and the above illo was US Tor edition some years ago. Don&#8217;t know who the artist is..and although I might be tempted to suggest John Picacio..I think it&#8217;s a bit too early for that young whippersnapper!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantasy Con Furore by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/06/fantasy-con-furore/comment-page-1/#comment-14120</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2011 14:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3967#comment-14120</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that Stephen....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that Stephen&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Life, Car Crashes and Everything by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/09/life-car-crashes-and-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-14119</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2011 14:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3983#comment-14119</guid>
		<description>The minute you left, it went to rack and ruin Stephen...didn&#039;t know that about Camber Sands, but Brighton can get HORRIBLY crowded.  Lovely place for a con though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The minute you left, it went to rack and ruin Stephen&#8230;didn&#8217;t know that about Camber Sands, but Brighton can get HORRIBLY crowded.  Lovely place for a con though.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Life, Car Crashes and Everything by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/09/life-car-crashes-and-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-14118</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2011 14:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3983#comment-14118</guid>
		<description>Thanks Maura - and will check out those films.  I&#039;ve been meaning to see Pontypool for ages, mainly because of the title....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Maura &#8211; and will check out those films.  I&#8217;ve been meaning to see Pontypool for ages, mainly because of the title&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantasy Con Furore by Stephen Hunt</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/06/fantasy-con-furore/comment-page-1/#comment-14111</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3967#comment-14111</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s an update on this over at http://sfcrowsnest.net/index.php?topic=1323.0 (Ramsey Campbell, BFS statement on David Howe resignation)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an update on this over at <a href="http://sfcrowsnest.net/index.php?topic=1323.0" rel="nofollow">http://sfcrowsnest.net/index.php?topic=1323.0</a> (Ramsey Campbell, BFS statement on David Howe resignation)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Life, Car Crashes and Everything by Maura</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/09/life-car-crashes-and-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-14110</link>
		<dc:creator>Maura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3983#comment-14110</guid>
		<description>Phil - sorry to hear about the car, but great news about the radio commission.

By the way the three low-budget horror films that I recommend for inspiration for those who want to make good films with little money (i.e. invest in a story!):

* &lt;em&gt;Pontypool&lt;/em&gt;, Writer: Tony Burgess (based on his novel); Director: Bruce McDonald
* &lt;em&gt;Maléfique&lt;/em&gt;, Writers: Alexandre Charlot, Franck Magnier, François Cognard; Directed by Eric Valette
* &lt;em&gt;The Devil&#039;s Business&lt;/em&gt;, written &amp; directed by Sean Hogan

The last film is new and I saw it at Frightfest this year. All of them manage to be scary too, despite the fact they are all basically stories about a few people in a room.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil &#8211; sorry to hear about the car, but great news about the radio commission.</p>
<p>By the way the three low-budget horror films that I recommend for inspiration for those who want to make good films with little money (i.e. invest in a story!):</p>
<p>* <em>Pontypool</em>, Writer: Tony Burgess (based on his novel); Director: Bruce McDonald<br />
* <em>Maléfique</em>, Writers: Alexandre Charlot, Franck Magnier, François Cognard; Directed by Eric Valette<br />
* <em>The Devil&#8217;s Business</em>, written &amp; directed by Sean Hogan</p>
<p>The last film is new and I saw it at Frightfest this year. All of them manage to be scary too, despite the fact they are all basically stories about a few people in a room.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Life, Car Crashes and Everything by Stephen Hunt</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/10/09/life-car-crashes-and-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-14108</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3983#comment-14108</guid>
		<description>Great to catch up at FantasyCon, Phil. 

Sounds like things got, errr, interesting at the awards night after I had pushed my way through the Brighton crowds back to the railway station.

Still, at least the police didn&#039;t shut Brighton down due to over-crowding like they had to do at Camber Sands!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great to catch up at FantasyCon, Phil. </p>
<p>Sounds like things got, errr, interesting at the awards night after I had pushed my way through the Brighton crowds back to the railway station.</p>
<p>Still, at least the police didn&#8217;t shut Brighton down due to over-crowding like they had to do at Camber Sands!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded by Ala</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/08/08/fantastic-fiction-sf-rebranded/comment-page-1/#comment-14000</link>
		<dc:creator>Ala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3636#comment-14000</guid>
		<description>Hey man!


I certainly agree that there is, and always has been, a massive overlap between SF and Fantasy (and Horror, for that matter) - but I still belive the genres are meaningful and necessary as separate labels with different primary characteristics; to be facetious there is no absolute division of the different hues in a rainbow, but that doesn&#039;t mean we should dispense with the different words for colours! ;)

Love the updates, btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey man!</p>
<p>I certainly agree that there is, and always has been, a massive overlap between SF and Fantasy (and Horror, for that matter) &#8211; but I still belive the genres are meaningful and necessary as separate labels with different primary characteristics; to be facetious there is no absolute division of the different hues in a rainbow, but that doesn&#8217;t mean we should dispense with the different words for colours! <img src='http://www.philippalmer.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Love the updates, btw.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/08/08/fantastic-fiction-sf-rebranded/comment-page-1/#comment-13998</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3636#comment-13998</guid>
		<description>Good points Ala.  I don&#039;t know for certain; but I&#039;d say the Wachowskis were having fun with the &#039;refusal of the call&#039; moment.  You can believe in an approach and still make a joke about it too.

I agree about Ian McDonald...and I also agree that extrapolating about cultural changes is THE coolest thing SF does now.  My points are really about the power of myth.  

Boundaries are blurred too; there&#039;s clear blue water between McDonald and Meyer; but what about McDonald and the Gene World of The Book of the New Sun? SF or fantasy? Both?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points Ala.  I don&#8217;t know for certain; but I&#8217;d say the Wachowskis were having fun with the &#8216;refusal of the call&#8217; moment.  You can believe in an approach and still make a joke about it too.</p>
<p>I agree about Ian McDonald&#8230;and I also agree that extrapolating about cultural changes is THE coolest thing SF does now.  My points are really about the power of myth.  </p>
<p>Boundaries are blurred too; there&#8217;s clear blue water between McDonald and Meyer; but what about McDonald and the Gene World of The Book of the New Sun? SF or fantasy? Both?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded by Ala</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/08/08/fantastic-fiction-sf-rebranded/comment-page-1/#comment-13996</link>
		<dc:creator>Ala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3636#comment-13996</guid>
		<description>A couple of personal observations:

1-) The Wachowskis could not, I think, reasonably be said to be &#039;mocking&#039; the refusal of the call with Neo not picking  up the phone - given how slavishly the Matrix films rip off the Star-Wars/Voglerised version of &#039;1000 Faces&#039; I think the most you could say was that the use of the trope literally was &#039;slightly arch&#039;!

2-) The article begins with discussing Stevens&#039; rather wordy argument on Science Fiction which, as far as I understand, basically says that the SF community is always predicting the death/rebirth of SF much like most religious cultures are constantly predicting some sort of apocalypse or another. So far, fair enough.

But then the article changes direction and states that SF *cannot* be dying, because really it has been subsumed by Fantasy, which is in rude health, and that that is because all the &#039;true&#039; SF ideas (&quot;predicting the future, extrapolating social trends; guessing amazing things that might happen&quot;) have already been done.

IMHO this is totally untrue, and there is still a wide gulf between pure Fantasy and pure SF... and I know this cos the only SF I&#039;ve read recently has been &#039;true&#039; SF. And brilliant: I&#039;m reading a book by Ian McDonald.

Now, the technocological advances in the book (and in his toher books from what I understand), is pretty standard SF stuff of virtual realities, robots and the likes; however, he is examining the effect of these technological perturbations on completely different socieities in different (darker, poorer) parts of the world to previous SF, which has historically been totally fixated with the West (and sometimes Japan).

And so, he is not only &quot;predicting the future, extrapolating social trends; guessing amazing things that might happen&quot;, but his doing so is wholly original as the social contexts he is extrapolating may as well be alien planets.

So, in short, based on my only SF reading recently, there is clear blue water between someone like Ian McDonald on the one hand (real SF), and someone like, say, Stephenie Meyer (a different kettle of poissons all together) on the other hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of personal observations:</p>
<p>1-) The Wachowskis could not, I think, reasonably be said to be &#8216;mocking&#8217; the refusal of the call with Neo not picking  up the phone &#8211; given how slavishly the Matrix films rip off the Star-Wars/Voglerised version of &#8217;1000 Faces&#8217; I think the most you could say was that the use of the trope literally was &#8216;slightly arch&#8217;!</p>
<p>2-) The article begins with discussing Stevens&#8217; rather wordy argument on Science Fiction which, as far as I understand, basically says that the SF community is always predicting the death/rebirth of SF much like most religious cultures are constantly predicting some sort of apocalypse or another. So far, fair enough.</p>
<p>But then the article changes direction and states that SF *cannot* be dying, because really it has been subsumed by Fantasy, which is in rude health, and that that is because all the &#8216;true&#8217; SF ideas (&#8220;predicting the future, extrapolating social trends; guessing amazing things that might happen&#8221;) have already been done.</p>
<p>IMHO this is totally untrue, and there is still a wide gulf between pure Fantasy and pure SF&#8230; and I know this cos the only SF I&#8217;ve read recently has been &#8216;true&#8217; SF. And brilliant: I&#8217;m reading a book by Ian McDonald.</p>
<p>Now, the technocological advances in the book (and in his toher books from what I understand), is pretty standard SF stuff of virtual realities, robots and the likes; however, he is examining the effect of these technological perturbations on completely different socieities in different (darker, poorer) parts of the world to previous SF, which has historically been totally fixated with the West (and sometimes Japan).</p>
<p>And so, he is not only &#8220;predicting the future, extrapolating social trends; guessing amazing things that might happen&#8221;, but his doing so is wholly original as the social contexts he is extrapolating may as well be alien planets.</p>
<p>So, in short, based on my only SF reading recently, there is clear blue water between someone like Ian McDonald on the one hand (real SF), and someone like, say, Stephenie Meyer (a different kettle of poissons all together) on the other hand.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Urban Fantasy Really ALL About Sex? by Editing The Sundered « Ruthanne Reid, Author &#38; Designer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2010/03/15/is-urban-fantasy-really-all-about-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-13105</link>
		<dc:creator>Editing The Sundered « Ruthanne Reid, Author &#38; Designer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 02:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=1921#comment-13105</guid>
		<description>[...] interesting post on whether urban fantasy is all about sex, by author Philip Palmer. I’m not sure I agree, but it’s food for thought.  On a completely [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] interesting post on whether urban fantasy is all about sex, by author Philip Palmer. I’m not sure I agree, but it’s food for thought.  On a completely [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Moodboard for Hell Ship by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/07/01/moodboard-for-hell-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-13096</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2011 20:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3117#comment-13096</guid>
		<description>Glad you inhaled some Hell Ship along with the salt-water-tanged air..I&#039;m finding more and more writers who use some version of moodboards. That and soundtracks are the inspiration for so many scribes. I used to have a sound track for every script I wrote...Santana (often!), jazz or heavy metal or whatever was the inspiration for that particular piece. I once adapted an Ian Rankin novel for telly and that meant putting the Stones on my running-soundtrack..Rebus&#039;s favourite band.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you inhaled some Hell Ship along with the salt-water-tanged air..I&#8217;m finding more and more writers who use some version of moodboards. That and soundtracks are the inspiration for so many scribes. I used to have a sound track for every script I wrote&#8230;Santana (often!), jazz or heavy metal or whatever was the inspiration for that particular piece. I once adapted an Ian Rankin novel for telly and that meant putting the Stones on my running-soundtrack..Rebus&#8217;s favourite band.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Moodboard for Hell Ship by Chang</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/07/01/moodboard-for-hell-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-13091</link>
		<dc:creator>Chang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2011 18:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3117#comment-13091</guid>
		<description>CHRIST I&#039;M SUPPOSED TO BE WRITING!!!

But I just wanted to say how much I loved Hell Ship.  I inhaled it on my holiday at the beach.  Interesting thing about moodboard&#039;s and I love being introduced to the concept.  I have a folder of pictures for my stories:  AN ENTIRE BLOODY MOODBOARD FOLDER!!!  But it does help get everything right in the head for the words to come out.  Love these, too.  Puts the book into some certain perspective or at least to see where you&#039;re coming from.  Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CHRIST I&#8217;M SUPPOSED TO BE WRITING!!!</p>
<p>But I just wanted to say how much I loved Hell Ship.  I inhaled it on my holiday at the beach.  Interesting thing about moodboard&#8217;s and I love being introduced to the concept.  I have a folder of pictures for my stories:  AN ENTIRE BLOODY MOODBOARD FOLDER!!!  But it does help get everything right in the head for the words to come out.  Love these, too.  Puts the book into some certain perspective or at least to see where you&#8217;re coming from.  Cheers!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hell Ship Reviews by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/09/14/hell-ship-reviews/comment-page-1/#comment-13055</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3861#comment-13055</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much Doug!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much Doug!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hell Ship Reviews by Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/09/14/hell-ship-reviews/comment-page-1/#comment-13052</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3861#comment-13052</guid>
		<description>Hell Ship rocked - downloaded it on the Kindle after a short but glowing review in the Guardian. One of the most enjoyable new SF novels I&#039;ve read this century. Keep them coming!

Can&#039;t wait to get stuck in to the rest of your ouevre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hell Ship rocked &#8211; downloaded it on the Kindle after a short but glowing review in the Guardian. One of the most enjoyable new SF novels I&#8217;ve read this century. Keep them coming!</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t wait to get stuck in to the rest of your ouevre.</p>
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		<title>Comment on B is for Beelzebub by Darren T</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/09/10/b-is-for-beelzebub/comment-page-1/#comment-13010</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3885#comment-13010</guid>
		<description>How to render Beelzebub powerless in one fell swoop: get Rowan Atkinson to pronounce his name out loud three times, thereby ttansforming him from dread demon lord to Blackadder gag looping endlessly on Dave (and can there be a worse eternal prison for the damned than that?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How to render Beelzebub powerless in one fell swoop: get Rowan Atkinson to pronounce his name out loud three times, thereby ttansforming him from dread demon lord to Blackadder gag looping endlessly on Dave (and can there be a worse eternal prison for the damned than that?)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Version 43: The Moodboard by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2010/01/06/on-version-43/comment-page-1/#comment-12945</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=817#comment-12945</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much...and I&#039;ll definitely try and do some more crime pieces.  It&#039;s a while since I&#039;ve been out as an observer with the Murder Squad (AMIP as it was in those days) and I miss it...I&#039;m currently working on a military drama, a whole other perspective, for Radio 4.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much&#8230;and I&#8217;ll definitely try and do some more crime pieces.  It&#8217;s a while since I&#8217;ve been out as an observer with the Murder Squad (AMIP as it was in those days) and I miss it&#8230;I&#8217;m currently working on a military drama, a whole other perspective, for Radio 4.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Version 43: The Moodboard by Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2010/01/06/on-version-43/comment-page-1/#comment-12920</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 19:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=817#comment-12920</guid>
		<description>Yup.  Kids, huh?  Seriously - gruesome but medically well informed (the nasal membrane allows alcohol to be absorbed more quickly).  
Thanks for the Chester tip - will read some.  I see Will Self now writes the forewords....which I think is a good sign.
And please keep up the good work.  I have been searching for this type of fiction for years.  Michael Marshall Smith abandoned me.  Scarlett Thomas let me down.  But now I&#039;ve found you!
Ps.  Please write a Sci-Fi crime blog.  You have a unique perspective!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup.  Kids, huh?  Seriously &#8211; gruesome but medically well informed (the nasal membrane allows alcohol to be absorbed more quickly).<br />
Thanks for the Chester tip &#8211; will read some.  I see Will Self now writes the forewords&#8230;.which I think is a good sign.<br />
And please keep up the good work.  I have been searching for this type of fiction for years.  Michael Marshall Smith abandoned me.  Scarlett Thomas let me down.  But now I&#8217;ve found you!<br />
Ps.  Please write a Sci-Fi crime blog.  You have a unique perspective!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Version 43: The Moodboard by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2010/01/06/on-version-43/comment-page-1/#comment-12853</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=817#comment-12853</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s so so so scary and horrible...the tampons up noses I mean, not you liking Version 43.  Have you read Chester Himes? Not SF, but brilliant Harlem noir of the 1960s,  but that&#039;s exactly the kind of stuff they would have got up to there...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s so so so scary and horrible&#8230;the tampons up noses I mean, not you liking Version 43.  Have you read Chester Himes? Not SF, but brilliant Harlem noir of the 1960s,  but that&#8217;s exactly the kind of stuff they would have got up to there&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Version 43: The Moodboard by Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2010/01/06/on-version-43/comment-page-1/#comment-12822</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=817#comment-12822</guid>
		<description>Of the, albeit limited, sub genre of SCI fi crime novels, Version 43 is about the only book I have found, written after Mr Dick expired, which &#039;get&#039;s it&#039;.  Love the mood board.  Love the decadence of Belladonna.  As if to prove we are just a whisper away from Lawless City, I&#039;ve just read an article in this morning&#039;s Times about teenagers who have worked out how to get drunk quicker by putting tampons soaked in alcohol up their noses, or by dripping alcohol into their eyes, or by taking vaporised &#039;Oxy Shots&#039;.  (Banned in the US but for sale on Costa De Sol which is, effectively, Belladonna-lite)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of the, albeit limited, sub genre of SCI fi crime novels, Version 43 is about the only book I have found, written after Mr Dick expired, which &#8216;get&#8217;s it&#8217;.  Love the mood board.  Love the decadence of Belladonna.  As if to prove we are just a whisper away from Lawless City, I&#8217;ve just read an article in this morning&#8217;s Times about teenagers who have worked out how to get drunk quicker by putting tampons soaked in alcohol up their noses, or by dripping alcohol into their eyes, or by taking vaporised &#8216;Oxy Shots&#8217;.  (Banned in the US but for sale on Costa De Sol which is, effectively, Belladonna-lite)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Moodboard for Hell Ship by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/07/01/moodboard-for-hell-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-12225</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3117#comment-12225</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much Erik!   Really enjoyed the niceness but also the vigour of your review.  Also, I love &#039;I Will Read Books&#039; as a title for a blog...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much Erik!   Really enjoyed the niceness but also the vigour of your review.  Also, I love &#8216;I Will Read Books&#8217; as a title for a blog&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Moodboard for Hell Ship by Erik Lundqvist (@erik_lundqvist)</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/07/01/moodboard-for-hell-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-12219</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Lundqvist (@erik_lundqvist)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3117#comment-12219</guid>
		<description>Hi Philip,

My review of Hell Ship went live earlier this week. Really liked your book which hopefully the review will reflect.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.iwillreadbooks.com/2011/08/ship-philip-palmer.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I Will Read Books - Hell Ship&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Philip,</p>
<p>My review of Hell Ship went live earlier this week. Really liked your book which hopefully the review will reflect.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.iwillreadbooks.com/2011/08/ship-philip-palmer.html" rel="nofollow">I Will Read Books &#8211; Hell Ship</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Moodboard for Hell Ship by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/07/01/moodboard-for-hell-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-12059</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2011 22:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3117#comment-12059</guid>
		<description>Glad to hear that&#039;s what you saw....!  Do let me have the link....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to hear that&#8217;s what you saw&#8230;.!  Do let me have the link&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Moodboard for Hell Ship by Erik Lundqvist (@erik_lundqvist)</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/07/01/moodboard-for-hell-ship/comment-page-1/#comment-12054</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Lundqvist (@erik_lundqvist)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2011 18:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3117#comment-12054</guid>
		<description>I love it. That&#039;s very close to what I &#039;saw&#039; when reading Hell Ship. Going to link this mood-board in my review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love it. That&#8217;s very close to what I &#8216;saw&#8217; when reading Hell Ship. Going to link this mood-board in my review.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded by SF Signal: SF Tidbits for 8/9/11</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/08/08/fantastic-fiction-sf-rebranded/comment-page-1/#comment-11978</link>
		<dc:creator>SF Signal: SF Tidbits for 8/9/11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 18:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3636#comment-11978</guid>
		<description>[...] on Fantasy. From the Write Angle on Publishers Playing the Social Media Game. Philip Palmer on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded. Forbes (Alex Knapp) on How E-Readers Can Save Reading. LA Times asks Could the Poe movie save [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on Fantasy. From the Write Angle on Publishers Playing the Social Media Game. Philip Palmer on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded. Forbes (Alex Knapp) on How E-Readers Can Save Reading. LA Times asks Could the Poe movie save [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on SFF Song of the Week: Richard Morgan by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2010/07/21/sff-song-of-the-week-richard-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-11921</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2011 11:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=1820#comment-11921</guid>
		<description>Hi Paula

Hope it&#039;s okay to use your great photo on this blog - it&#039;s fabulous.  But let me know if it&#039;s a problem, or you&#039;d like a proper credit!

Philip</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Paula</p>
<p>Hope it&#8217;s okay to use your great photo on this blog &#8211; it&#8217;s fabulous.  But let me know if it&#8217;s a problem, or you&#8217;d like a proper credit!</p>
<p>Philip</p>
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		<title>Comment on SFF Song of the Week: Richard Morgan by paula</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2010/07/21/sff-song-of-the-week-richard-morgan/comment-page-1/#comment-11905</link>
		<dc:creator>paula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 21:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=1820#comment-11905</guid>
		<description>oh look, it´s my photo...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh look, it´s my photo&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/08/08/fantastic-fiction-sf-rebranded/comment-page-1/#comment-11843</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 15:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3636#comment-11843</guid>
		<description>I also like the word fantastika...I guess I&#039;d class myself as a cultural optimist, I hate the idea there&#039;s a Golden Age from which we decline. So that&#039;s why I never take to ideas like cultural ennui...

But on days like today, I&#039;m not feeling so culturally optimistic...the future is upon us, and its name is anarchy. If you live in London that is. 

Yes I found your piece hugely stimulating John...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also like the word fantastika&#8230;I guess I&#8217;d class myself as a cultural optimist, I hate the idea there&#8217;s a Golden Age from which we decline. So that&#8217;s why I never take to ideas like cultural ennui&#8230;</p>
<p>But on days like today, I&#8217;m not feeling so culturally optimistic&#8230;the future is upon us, and its name is anarchy. If you live in London that is. </p>
<p>Yes I found your piece hugely stimulating John&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded by John Stevens (@eruditeogre)</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/08/08/fantastic-fiction-sf-rebranded/comment-page-1/#comment-11840</link>
		<dc:creator>John Stevens (@eruditeogre)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3636#comment-11840</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the thoughtful response, Philip; I&#039;m glad that your found the writing useful to think with!

I think there is more to the mythic angle in fantastika (my personal preferred term), but in a much broader sense that includes the cultural discourse within the literary field. Some writers mine the tropes of Campbell, while other strive for anti-mythology. At the moment there is much more cacophony (to borrow from Gary K. Wolfe) and ambivalence about categorization, even as market categories appear to be more important and luring from some types of stories. I am not sure if it is cultural ennui writ large, although there is plenty of dissatisfaction and ambiguity in fantastic literature today, which I think is why it&#039;s easy to say that SF is not &quot;SF&quot; anymore. But if that&#039;s so, why can&#039;t we stop talking about and move on? There&#039;s more going on there, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thoughtful response, Philip; I&#8217;m glad that your found the writing useful to think with!</p>
<p>I think there is more to the mythic angle in fantastika (my personal preferred term), but in a much broader sense that includes the cultural discourse within the literary field. Some writers mine the tropes of Campbell, while other strive for anti-mythology. At the moment there is much more cacophony (to borrow from Gary K. Wolfe) and ambivalence about categorization, even as market categories appear to be more important and luring from some types of stories. I am not sure if it is cultural ennui writ large, although there is plenty of dissatisfaction and ambiguity in fantastic literature today, which I think is why it&#8217;s easy to say that SF is not &#8220;SF&#8221; anymore. But if that&#8217;s so, why can&#8217;t we stop talking about and move on? There&#8217;s more going on there, I think.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded by Philip Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/08/08/fantastic-fiction-sf-rebranded/comment-page-1/#comment-11834</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 11:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3636#comment-11834</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  I&#039;ve seen photos of Lucas with Joseph Campbell and there was certainly a meeting of minds there.  Campbell&#039;s ideas were popularised by in Hollywood by Christopher Vogler, who famously wrote a memo for the Walt Disney Corporation while working for them as a story analyst, with a potted digest of Campbell&#039;s ideas about myth reduced to a winning formula.  Vogler&#039;s book THE WRITER&#039;S JOURNEY is now a staple text for many executives and writers, turning mythic archtetypes cribbed from fairy tales into winning formulae for movies.  Character archetypes like Hero and Mentor come into play here; and structural ideas like Ordinary World/Call to Adventure/Refusal of the Call.

I find that approach a bit arid, myself, and my theory is the Wachowksis mocked this approach in THE MATRIX when Neo hears the phone ring and doesn&#039;t answer - ie REFUSAL OF THE CALL.  But still, it&#039;s potent stuff.

However you may be right; Lucas may have just scrabbled the movie together in the first instance then justified with Big Ideas after the fact.

I agree that most modern SF consist of &#039;expansion of the tropes created during the golden age&#039;; it&#039;s so hard now to think of genuinely shockingly new extrapolations. But I don&#039;t regard genre-mashing as a retrograde step; it depends how it&#039;s done.  It means that SF is not so much a  literature of new ideas, but a literature of fantastic events based on familiar ideas, but done in such a  way that it speaks to a whole new generation.  THE SPACE MERCHANTS by Pohl and Kornbluth is for me a harbinger of the potential of SF to be about the present (satirically in that case) as well as about the future; I find that exhilarating. 

That&#039;s not saying SF should be satirical always; just that our stories about the future will always expose our thoughts or assumptions about the present. 

But pure extrapolation can lead to character-thin writing, as we all know.  And THAT for me is retrograde; EE Doc Smith just doesn&#039;t work for me anymore, and even Asimov feels pretty flimsy.  Because they&#039;re all about Story (Smith) or  Ideas (Asimov) not about people reacting to fantastic situations in ways that reveal aspects of our humanity. 

To put it another way: Much Golden Age SF worked because it made us think; for me the future of SF is writing stories that make us think AND feel.

Good to meet you Steve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  I&#8217;ve seen photos of Lucas with Joseph Campbell and there was certainly a meeting of minds there.  Campbell&#8217;s ideas were popularised by in Hollywood by Christopher Vogler, who famously wrote a memo for the Walt Disney Corporation while working for them as a story analyst, with a potted digest of Campbell&#8217;s ideas about myth reduced to a winning formula.  Vogler&#8217;s book THE WRITER&#8217;S JOURNEY is now a staple text for many executives and writers, turning mythic archtetypes cribbed from fairy tales into winning formulae for movies.  Character archetypes like Hero and Mentor come into play here; and structural ideas like Ordinary World/Call to Adventure/Refusal of the Call.</p>
<p>I find that approach a bit arid, myself, and my theory is the Wachowksis mocked this approach in THE MATRIX when Neo hears the phone ring and doesn&#8217;t answer &#8211; ie REFUSAL OF THE CALL.  But still, it&#8217;s potent stuff.</p>
<p>However you may be right; Lucas may have just scrabbled the movie together in the first instance then justified with Big Ideas after the fact.</p>
<p>I agree that most modern SF consist of &#8216;expansion of the tropes created during the golden age&#8217;; it&#8217;s so hard now to think of genuinely shockingly new extrapolations. But I don&#8217;t regard genre-mashing as a retrograde step; it depends how it&#8217;s done.  It means that SF is not so much a  literature of new ideas, but a literature of fantastic events based on familiar ideas, but done in such a  way that it speaks to a whole new generation.  THE SPACE MERCHANTS by Pohl and Kornbluth is for me a harbinger of the potential of SF to be about the present (satirically in that case) as well as about the future; I find that exhilarating. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s not saying SF should be satirical always; just that our stories about the future will always expose our thoughts or assumptions about the present. </p>
<p>But pure extrapolation can lead to character-thin writing, as we all know.  And THAT for me is retrograde; EE Doc Smith just doesn&#8217;t work for me anymore, and even Asimov feels pretty flimsy.  Because they&#8217;re all about Story (Smith) or  Ideas (Asimov) not about people reacting to fantastic situations in ways that reveal aspects of our humanity. </p>
<p>To put it another way: Much Golden Age SF worked because it made us think; for me the future of SF is writing stories that make us think AND feel.</p>
<p>Good to meet you Steve.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fantastic Fiction: SF Rebranded by steve davidson</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/08/08/fantastic-fiction-sf-rebranded/comment-page-1/#comment-11832</link>
		<dc:creator>steve davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 11:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3636#comment-11832</guid>
		<description>Star Wars being &quot;... a movie based very closely on the ideas of myth propounded by Joseph W. Campbell in his book THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES...&quot; is a canard assiduously worked on by Lucas himself in an attempt to gain more legitimacy for his movie.  When working towards release and during the first few years following the release of that film, the origin story, articulated by Lucas hmself, was that it was an homage to space opera and particularly to Flash Gordon - which was the film he originally wanted to make.

In that respect, while Star Wars may contain mythic elements (what story doesn&#039;t?), I don&#039;t think you can reasonably base an argument for myth in SF on this particular example.  

If one were to argue that Flash Gordon is mythic, you&#039;d find a good degree of support in that work, but to imply that Lucas reinforced those elements deliberately and with &#039;Hero&#039; in mind give him far too much credit and just isn&#039;t supported by the facts.  Unconscious homage to a serial play with mythic elements - yes.  Grand example of myth as an underpinning for SF - no.

In my own personal estimation, SF as it was is virtually dead.  The product being released now is not extrapolative or grand visionary, it is virtually all genre-mashing, or rather, expansion of the tropes created during the golden age.  A contemporary say, generation ship story may have interesting characters, may introduce elements from other genres, but the &#039;BIG IDEA&#039; of generation ships is borrowed and the contemporary story introduces nothing &#039;new&#039;.

I believe that this is ultimately the result of cultural ennui, a turning inwards rather than looking outwards, even perhaps cyclical in nature.  If our society were still looking to the future, no amount of politicking would largely shut down space exploration or other forms of seemingly useless endeavours.  I think that as a society, we&#039;ve gone from being excited about &quot;DA FUTURE&quot; to being afraid of it, and this low-level fear has permeated everything, including science fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Star Wars being &#8220;&#8230; a movie based very closely on the ideas of myth propounded by Joseph W. Campbell in his book THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES&#8230;&#8221; is a canard assiduously worked on by Lucas himself in an attempt to gain more legitimacy for his movie.  When working towards release and during the first few years following the release of that film, the origin story, articulated by Lucas hmself, was that it was an homage to space opera and particularly to Flash Gordon &#8211; which was the film he originally wanted to make.</p>
<p>In that respect, while Star Wars may contain mythic elements (what story doesn&#8217;t?), I don&#8217;t think you can reasonably base an argument for myth in SF on this particular example.  </p>
<p>If one were to argue that Flash Gordon is mythic, you&#8217;d find a good degree of support in that work, but to imply that Lucas reinforced those elements deliberately and with &#8216;Hero&#8217; in mind give him far too much credit and just isn&#8217;t supported by the facts.  Unconscious homage to a serial play with mythic elements &#8211; yes.  Grand example of myth as an underpinning for SF &#8211; no.</p>
<p>In my own personal estimation, SF as it was is virtually dead.  The product being released now is not extrapolative or grand visionary, it is virtually all genre-mashing, or rather, expansion of the tropes created during the golden age.  A contemporary say, generation ship story may have interesting characters, may introduce elements from other genres, but the &#8216;BIG IDEA&#8217; of generation ships is borrowed and the contemporary story introduces nothing &#8216;new&#8217;.</p>
<p>I believe that this is ultimately the result of cultural ennui, a turning inwards rather than looking outwards, even perhaps cyclical in nature.  If our society were still looking to the future, no amount of politicking would largely shut down space exploration or other forms of seemingly useless endeavours.  I think that as a society, we&#8217;ve gone from being excited about &#8220;DA FUTURE&#8221; to being afraid of it, and this low-level fear has permeated everything, including science fiction.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Near Future by mike cobley</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/07/05/the-near-future/comment-page-1/#comment-10473</link>
		<dc:creator>mike cobley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3140#comment-10473</guid>
		<description>Worth pointing out that a lot of this new tech is also in the hands of corporate para-governmental divisions (in the grey/black area) who do not have our best interests at heart. We&#039;re getting to the stage where cyber-modelling of communities large and small must surely be going on, for reasons all too easy to speculate on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worth pointing out that a lot of this new tech is also in the hands of corporate para-governmental divisions (in the grey/black area) who do not have our best interests at heart. We&#8217;re getting to the stage where cyber-modelling of communities large and small must surely be going on, for reasons all too easy to speculate on.</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Gaza by ed mast</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2007/06/25/on-gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-9918</link>
		<dc:creator>ed mast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.demon.darrenturpin.co.uk/philippalmer/2007/06/25/on-gaza/#comment-9918</guid>
		<description>Possible to hear this Gaza radio play anywhere?  Failing that, possible to see the script?  In Seattle, always looking for theatrical explorations of he Palestinian situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Possible to hear this Gaza radio play anywhere?  Failing that, possible to see the script?  In Seattle, always looking for theatrical explorations of he Palestinian situation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Opening Lines by Al Harron</title>
		<link>http://www.philippalmer.net/2011/06/27/opening-lines/comment-page-1/#comment-9817</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Harron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philippalmer.net/?p=3106#comment-9817</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m always on the lookout for memorable opening lines.  One of my favourites is from Gordon R. Dickson&#039;s &quot;St. Dragon and the George&quot;:

&quot;A trifle diffidently, Jim Eckert rapped with his claw on the blue-painted door.&quot;

The idea that someone with such an obviously human name as Jime Eckert would knock on a door with a CLAW instantly hooked me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m always on the lookout for memorable opening lines.  One of my favourites is from Gordon R. Dickson&#8217;s &#8220;St. Dragon and the George&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;A trifle diffidently, Jim Eckert rapped with his claw on the blue-painted door.&#8221;</p>
<p>The idea that someone with such an obviously human name as Jime Eckert would knock on a door with a CLAW instantly hooked me.</p>
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